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Hunting dogs may legally wander onto nearby properties in St. Lawrence County despite landowners’ wishes

Posted 2/11/17

By CRAIG FREILICH AND MATT LINDSEY POTSDAM -- Despite a town-wide leash law, hunting dogs can legally roam your property, even if you don’t want them there and fear they may hurt your small …

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Hunting dogs may legally wander onto nearby properties in St. Lawrence County despite landowners’ wishes

Posted

By CRAIG FREILICH AND MATT LINDSEY

POTSDAM -- Despite a town-wide leash law, hunting dogs can legally roam your property, even if you don’t want them there and fear they may hurt your small children or livestock.

But those hunting dogs may be rounding up vicious coyotes that could threaten animals and people.

A Douglas Road man learned the details of the law recently after being charged with fifth degree criminal possession of stolen property for removing a collar from a hunting dog running on his land one too many times.

After several previous incidents, Ryan Gagner was feeding his cows on Jan. 15 when he heard “four dogs coming out of my woods. I whistled and a dog came right over to me. I removed the collar so the owner would have to come to me or call the police to get it.”

He said he removed the collar because outdoor outfitter and guide Joe Babbitt of Lisbon has run dogs on his property many times since July 2015 and he was tired of it. Babbitt is a prominent fishing guide, hunter and trapper whose website is at www.slexp.com.

By the end of the day, state police had arrested Gagner, and he was incensed.

Babbitt, who has tracked coyotes for 50-60 years, agrees that it is “irritating” not being able to keep dogs off land when owners request not to, but he says the task is difficult when the dogs are rounding up coyotes.

“These dogs don't have a steering wheel,” Babbitt said about controlling them.

Dogs Can Wander Legally

According to the state Department of Environmental Conservation, hunting dogs can be released on land with the permission of the landowner. But the dogs can wander onto anyone else’s land and be there legally even if the owner of the land where the dogs wind up doesn’t want them there.

The Town of Potsdam has a leash law in force designed to require dog owners to maintain control of their animals and to keep them off of land where they are not wanted, but such local laws do not override the DEC law, said DEC spokeswoman Andrea Pedrick.

Gagner said that early in January this year “the hunters arrived back. Two weeks ago the hunter dogs were on my porch and in my yard barking. These strange dogs and their loud barking and disruptions have scared the animals and has caused my four-year-old to be scared of dogs thinking that they are all coming out of the woods to chase him,” he said.

“That day, I told him (Babbitt) to keep his dogs off my property. He called the state police. The state police told me that dog hunters have the right to hunt anywhere and to not get into any altercation with the man and that he would try to stay away.”

About a week later, he was leaving his house when “a group of hunters let their dogs go in front of me on my land. At this point I knew they were just taunting me,” Gagner said.

Later on the day he took the dog collar, he and his family left the house on an outing while the hunters were still parked out front.

Tracking Can Be Tasking

Babbitt says one of his dogs chased a coyote for 72 miles one time. “How many pieces of land do you think he covered that day?”

He purchased $2,000 dog tracking collars which can shock the animal or send a tone that will alert the dog to come out of the woods. The collars have a range of about one and half miles.

Babbitt disagrees with Gagner that the hunting dogs were on his porch.

“I can tell where they were within a few feet and they were not on his porch,” he said.

“Everyone should have a right to their land and do what they please with it – it’s their kingdom,” he said. “I can only speak for myself, but if someone doesn't want us on their land, we don't go.”

State Troopers Respond

When he got home he was told by a neighbor that the state police had been at his house, and he called the troopers immediately “to let them know I was home and they came right over.”

Gagner said troopers had taken statements from Babbitt at 2:55 and at 3:45 p.m.

“Trooper Hitchman explained that the hunting dogs may go wherever they want, posted or not, but the owner may not trespass,” Gagner said. “I was told because I removed the collar and didn't return it to the owner immediately and the police were involved that I was in possession of stolen property.”

He was stunned.

“I thought how is this possible when the dog was in my yard. I gave the collar to the police undamaged and willingly. I did not assault the dog or the owner. I was trying to get the police involved to mediate the situation, not to impede the investigation,” Gagner said.

Gagner was charged with fifth-degree criminal possession of stolen property at 5:28 p.m. Jan. 15 and released.

He says he doesn’t feel his arrest was appropriate, considering the situation.

He continues to protest the dogs’ presence on his land, and he says at least one adjacent farm owner agrees with him.

“There are too many loopholes in the hunting laws regarding dogs and the theory that ‘dogs can't trespass,’” Gagner said.

“Now I am still involved in this problem, no solution is in sight, and a charge that makes me look like a thief in the public eye.”

Dealing With Coyote Problem

Landowners and farmers often call Babbitt when they have a coyote problem.

Babbitt says what he is doing is a service and there is no malicious intent behind having his dogs in the woods.

“I’ve seen where coyotes went right into the barn,” said. He said several farmers have lost calves, sometime half-born calves, to coyotes.

Babbitt runs his dogs five to six days a week.

He usually begins by finding a track on the side of the road. He then puts a dog or two on the track and the dogs follow the track until they “get the coyote out of bed.”

“It’s a lot like running rabbits – they run in a circle often – and then we wait until we get a chance to shoot and we kill them,” he said.

Babbitt said he has seen 7-8 deer killed in a small wooded area from coyotes and that if anyone sees it happen in person it would likely make them “sick.”

“They basically bite them from behind to get them down and then eat them alive,” he said.

“I try to stop the dogs off before they get to his land (Gagner’s land on Douglas Road),” he said. “I don't want a problem – we are here to help.”

Babbitt warns people not to let small children play outside in the yard alone.

“A coyote will take them and drag them off into the woods – they’ve even chased me out of the woods three or four times,” he said. “Some of them are not afraid of people.”

Babbitt says coyotes around the North Country are bigger than western coyotes and are mix of coyotes and the red wolf.

“They will kill small dogs and cats too.”

Babbitt said he started tracking coyotes after one of them took his mother’s cat off her porch. He said they were able to track it down and killed it.

A request by North Country This Week for a copy of the state police arrest and incident reports was denied. A Freedom of Information Law (FOIL) request to the state police FOIL office was denied because the case is “pending adjudication” and “the record which was compiled for law enforcement purposes and which, if disclosed, would interfere with judicial proceedings.”